Unmineable Coal

First posted
Thursday April 7, 2011 05:43
Updated
Thursday February 16, 2012 09:21

____

Monday February 6, 2012 13:06


Mr Miller's mail.




Sunday February 5, 2012 08:05

Hello Mr Miller,

Content analysis of your February 2, 2012 email has begun.

Motion in a New Mexico Natrual Gas rate hearing may have to be filed before February 13, 2012 so I may not have time to complete my analysis for a while.

Later,
bill

Monday February 6, 2012 08:57

Back link to Hoffman email.

http://www.prosefights.org/nmgco/intervene/eia/eiagas.htm#hoffman

Water consumption used for generation of electricity article written by Mr Frank Currie published in the Albuquerque Journal was apparently designed to encourage electricity generation from wind and solar which does not require water.

Money can can be made from manufacture/selling, installation, and maintenance of wind and solar generation of electricity systems. But both may not produce enough electricity to recover costs.

Retrofit home solar generation of electricity may be an example?

Lot's of well-educated intelligent scientists and engineers are scam artists who can 'con' the liberal arts 'educated' using their credentials to obtain money.

Fusion generation of electricity is case in point. Billions have been spent. No fusion energy so far.

Nonetheless, fusion energy scientists, engineers, some national laboratories and contractor have made a lot of money over the years.

Let's respond to Mr Miller in due time.

Project steps triage points to more pressing tasks in possible recovery of stolen $22,036.

1 Stephen S. Miller, P.E.
2 http://www.cai-engr.com/?id=content/t2k/sc.html
3 Photo
4 Commonwealth associates.



http://www.prosefights.org/unmineable/unmineable.htm#miller


 




Dear Mr. Payne:

[Testimonial/Interpretation]

Until last summer, Frank worked with Commonwealth Associates, Inc. when he went to work for another firm. I have known and worked with Frank for many years and he is a top notch professional. I am also familiar with Mr. Rudisill and can say the same. I took a few minutes to hash through the Web posts you referenced below and it is evident to me that Mr. Currie and Mr. Rudisill have given you answers that are erudite and technically correct. I am certain that if either wished to spend any more time on the issue, they would wind up at exactly the same place and are in complete agreement.

Mr. Currie’s point is that Heat Rate is pretty much meaningless with respect to wind and solar. Mr. Rudisill explained the application to geothermal and the reasons why the rate is so much higher for geothermal than other fossil resources. Particularly for solar, but also for wind an efficiency similar to heat rate might be calculated by calculating the total available energy in solar irradiance or the total power in the wind and dividing it by the electrical output. In the proper units this could be compared to Heat Rate, but the result would be of dubious value. In the case of solar would you choose to use the amount incident on the panels or the amount on the total area covered by the panels. For wind would it be the energy in the wind across the entire face of the “wind plant” or just the energy in the wind blowing over the area swept by the blades? In the case of PV, the efficiency of individual PV cells is closely examined and increasing this efficiency is the holy grail of PV research. I believe current manufacturer products are in the 15 to 20 % range, but it doesn’t matter if the cost of the cells is low enough and the other resources consumed small enough to lead to a low price for the electrical output.

[Speculation]

With respect to wind and solar a more important measurement might well be the land use for each generated kW. As all have tried to explain, the important measure is resources used per electrical unit produced. Now that we have reviewed a wide variety of alternatives, I leave you with a question: what do you think the heat rate for hydro generation might be? Does it matter if it is run-of-the-river or storage?

.
[interpretation]

In any event energy choices are extremely complex, subject to value judgments, affected by changes in technology, and subject to varying circumstances. I hope you have the time and choose to follow-up and understand the answers you have been given.

Stephen S. Miller, P.E.
Section Manager - TRANSMISSION 2000
E-mail: ssmiller@cai-engr.com
Tel: 517-788-3676
Fax: 517-788-3003
Commonwealth Associates, Inc.
P.O. Box 1124 (Zip 49204)
2700 W.Argyle
Jackson, MI 49202


Notes

[Data]


The US Energy Department will provide up to $30.6m in economic stimulus funds for infrastructure modernization at seven small hydroelectric sites, part of an agency program to increase clean hydropower generation and efficiency

County of Los Alamos, New Mexico, up to $4.56m. This project will add a new turbine/generator to boost output by 3MW at a hydroelectric plant in Abiquiu. The project’s environmental benefits include higher dissolved oxygen content in downstream water and increased minimum flows. Power generation will increase 23%

[TV announced the new efficient generator at Abiquiu which works with a low water head. That's why we googled to find above detlais.

Hydropower



http://www.prosefights.org/nmsea08232011/nmsea08232011.htm#zlicoff

Albuquerque Journal Business Insider Friday May 20, 2011 email

RATE CASE WRAPPED UP - The evidentiary hearing on the PNM rate case ended Wednesday for all intents and purposes. However, some additional testimony will be allowed and be subject to cross examination Tuesday morning if an intervenor requests. A hearing examiner probably will not file a recommended decision until late June, with the Public Regulation Commission unlikely to make a final decision until late July or early August.

Saturday May 21, 2010 10:30

Silicon Labs C8051Fx microcontrollers have on-board voltage regulation, oscillator, USB 2.0 full-speed, and flash memory.

Freescale Kinetis also has these features.

Lots of interesting posts on solar are starting to address EROEI of solar. Lessons Learned from the Trina Solar Boom

Liberal arts 'educated' electricity projects.
http://www.prosefights.org/pnmratehearing/pnmratehearing.htm#noon

http://www.prosefights.org/unmineable/unmineable.htm#regulator


[t]he solar panel behaves as a high output impedance power source whose power output is time varying and dependent on the ambient conditions. This is in contrast to a wall adapter or a USB source which is a low output impedance power source.  

USB and wall adapters have voltage regulator similar to the 7805. The more current used, the hotter they get. Heat sinks are freguently required. Power is wasted in this type of regulation.

Solar generation of electricity cannot afford to waste power. Voltage requlation for solar power may require different technology? Let's investigate.

Solar panel voltage regulator
Schematic appeart to be have been produced with ExpressPCB.

Solar Panel Voltage Regulator

Energy of a Photon

Closing in on Heat Rate for solar answer?



What do I think?

I think lawyer McCoy is trying to play lawyer games.



My opinion about geothermal is unimportant. 


Wednesday May 11, 2011 10:15



We are hopefully competent enough to be suspicious as to question whether heat rate applies, or not, to non-combustibles in hope of saving some of us senior citizens electric bill money.

Below may be very important information


From: "Jake Rudisill" j.rudisill@meridianenergyusa.com
To: bpayne37@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:37:20 PM
Subject: Heat Rate misconception

Mr. Payne,

The definition of heat rate is not the heat content of just the fossil fuel inputting the conversion system—it is the conversion efficiency of the system with whatever is the heat input.


Every plant’s heat rate can thus be calculated.

Geothermal energy has a very high heat rate because it utilizes a relatively low grade of heat source—at its best, 350F, 100 psi steam, and thus 1200 btu/lbm. In a modern gas-fired boiler, steam is at 1000F and 2500 psi, with a much higher heat content of around 1770 btu/lbm.

http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_supersteam.htm

http://www.energyvortex.com/energydictionary/heat_rate.html

heat rate

A measurement used in the energy industry to calculate how efficiently a generator uses heat energy. It is expressed as the number of BTUs of heat required to produce a kilowatt-hour of energy. Operators of generating facilities can make reasonably accurate estimates of the amount of heat energy a given quantity of any type of fuel, so when this is compared to the actual energy produced by the generator, the resulting figure tells how efficiently the generator converts that fuel into electrical energy.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/power-plant-efficiency-d_960.html

Heat Rate (Energy Efficiency)

Overall thermal performance or energy efficiency for a power plant for a period can be defined as

fhr = H / E (1)

where

fhr = heat rate (Btu/kW, kJ/kW)

H = heat supplied to the power plant for a period (Btu, kJ)

E = energy output from the power plant in the period (kWh)


Sunday May 1, 2011 09:05

The PNM solar production plant, on 50 acres of land adjacent to Highway 11, will include approximately 78,000 photovoltaic panels that use energy from the Sun to create electricity.


Renewable energy and storage See first comment.



First Solar To Build PV Plants for PNM in NM comment.

PNM’s First Large-Scale Solar Plant Up and Running.

Wednesday April 27, 2011

Should NNGCO have alternate compressor stations power sources? 
BP's refinery has on-site power generation capacity and generates more electricity than it uses. The other three facilities rely on power from the local grid, which is owned and operated by Texas New Mexico Power Co.

Do Schott solar panels generate more electricity than Schott uses at mesa del sol?




Link to Hartranft's article dead. But

New Mexico Unveils First Large Scale Solar Utility Plant

Albquerque Journal writer Michael Hartranft numbers computations.
2,000,000 watts takes 30,000 solar panels
5,000,000 watts each at four additional plants for total of 20,000,000 watts

fast neutron
Santa Fe, NM
January 12, 2009

From actual experience, wind farms produce 1.2 watts per square meter. Solar Thermal and Photovoltaic methods capture 5 to 6 watts per square meter. There is no economy of size in either technology. Dividing the watts you need by those values gives the land area in square meters needed to produce the juice. The numbers are astronomical

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/santa-fe-new-mexican/T0QVJ5UD3R25C8HRL
If both are correct, 300,000 solar panels are at least required for the additional 4 installations?

Sunday April 25, 2011 photo taken from south of Reeves PNM natural gas peaking electric generator station.



Link to first of five pnm solar plants starts feeding into the grid must be through google to view without Albuquerque Journal subsctiption.

Key statements?
  1. 30,000 solar panels
  2. two megawatts
  3. enough power to supply 640 homes
  4. first of five pnm solar plants
  5. four additional utility-scale solar pojrects
  6. Los Lunas, Alamagordo, Deming, Las Vegas
  7. each will have a five megawatt capaciity
  8. generate about 51 million kilowatt hours
  9. cost about $191,7 million
  10. enough power for about 7,000 homes
1 kWh = 3412.14163 BTU.

AARP Opposes PNM Rate Request





This Is What Resistance Looks Like




Saturday April 23, 2011 09:37

.
He said he disagrees with a congressional proposal that cuts investments in clean energy by 70 percent to lower the deficit.

Saturday April 23, 2011, 6:12 am EDT WASHINGTON (AP)

President Barack Obama says one answer to high gasoline prices is to spend money developing renewable energy sources.





 


Phone message from AARP/New Mexico complaining about PNM rate hikes.

AARP: NEW MEXICO. Stan Cooper, State Director. 535 Cerrillos Rd. Suite A. Santa Fe, NM 87501. Phone: (505) 946-3601. E-mail: scooper@aarp.org


Thursday April 212, 2011


Climate Risk: Yet Another Reason to Choose Renewable Energy



 


Field trip Wednesday April 20, 2011

Large-scale solar generation of electricity is our focus.


 









AARP Opposes PNM Rate Request





Power Shift vs. The Powers That Be

 


Schneider Electric Recalls Xantrex GT Series Grid Tie Solar Inverters Due to Injury Hazard.


http://www.prosefights.org/unmineable/unmineable.htm#xantrex


On The Sunny Side of the Nuclear Street.



Money for SunShot DOE starting its breakthrough solar program.

 













From: SUNSMITHS@aol.com
To: bpayne37@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 8:27:09 AM
Subject: Re: comments please

Hello Bill,

I got your email and telephone interview and all is correct. If there is any thing else that I can help with, please let me know.

The wind continues to blow and I continue to make money from it.

Michael Spiller
Sunsmiths Ltd Co
505-281-8104 Home / Office
505-252-9227 Cell
www.sunsmiths.com

Sunday April 17, 2011 09:17

Sunsmiths Ltd. Co.

Sunsmiths@aol.com

Hello Mr Spiller,

From your experience with wind and solar generation of electricity, I would appreciate comments.

http://www.prosefights.org/unmineable/unmineable.htm#scholle

Please ack if you get this email.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

bill 




Mr Spiller's wind turbine photographed Wednesday April 27, 2011.

Note guide wires.

Read about blade surface area and power output.




Link to aermotor photo.


Jacobs lattice tower wind turbine located several 100 yards east of Spiller turbine.

Note fence around base of tower.

Compare turbine blade surface areas of both turbines.



Wednesday May 4, 2011 16:57

http://www.prosefights.org/unmineable/unmineable.ht#betz
 


New Small Wind Turbine Unveiled at CES.

Sorry, but you swallowed a bunch of sales department hype. There’s nothing new in this larger version of the five year old SkyStream design that would justify it being the “first fully smart” small wind turbine. Other manufacturers have offered internet monitoring systems for years and so has Southwest Windpower. It produces 74% more energy because its ~ 74% larger, not because its 74% more efficient (which would violate the “Betz Law” efficiency limit). Wait until you can get a price, certified performance figures following AWEA standards, and the warranty terms – then you can judge how competitive this new model is against the many other good small turbines on the market.

fast neutron
Santa Fe, NM
January 12, 2009

From actual experience, wind farms produce 1.2 watts per square meter. Solar Thermal and Photovoltaic methods capture 5 to 6 watts per square meter. There is no economy of size in either technology. Dividing the watts you need by those values gives the land area in square meters needed to produce the juice. The numbers are astronomical

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/santa-fe-new-mexican/T0QVJ5UD3R25C8HRL
A Buoyant Future for Floating Wind Turbines? comment.



Wednesday April 20, 2011 06:00


Us liberal arts 'educated' in action.



When falls on man the anger of the gods, first from his mind they banish understanding.
Lycurgus

When divine power plans evil for a man, it first injures his mind.
Sophocles

Those whom God wishes to destroy, he first deprives of their senses.
Euripides

Whom God wishes to destroy he first makes mad.
Seneca

For those whom God to ruin has design'd, He fits for fate, and first destroys their mind.
John Dryden

Whom the Gods would destroy they first make mad.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

:-)


http://www.prosefights.org/unmineable/unmineable.htm#currie








To: bpayne37@comcast.net, romeo@ingv.it
Cc: scholle1@gmail.com, gretchen@gis.nmt.edu, "mary homan" mary.homan@nmgco.com
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:51:58 PM
Subject: RE: an unloaded solar array supplies a high voltage even in poor lighting

Bill:

With respect to solar-driven technologies: There. Is. No. Heat rate.

By definition... that definition having been supplied to you several times by various people who understand engineering and energy-related terminology.

Heat rate is, by definition, a ratio of input heat (from burning something) to output electrical power. It is, as I suspect you inherently feel, a measure of efficiency. So if you want to blanket everything under one term, use "efficiency," cuz heat rate's already got a definition.

Your insistence that the term include more than it does is, apparently, leading you to some erroneous conclusions. For example, you seem to think that the 3413 Btu/kWh should mean something more than it does. It's simply a conversion between energy units. It's equivalent to saying a foot has 12 inches. Any attempt to say that some technology can't work because it takes more than 3413 Btu to produce a kWh is nonsensical because the term is being misapplied. It's like someone asking why that wall is so long when a foot only has twelve inches.

Of course every technology (every single one of them that ever has or ever will be) requires more than 3413 Btu to put out a kWh of energy. It has to. Otherwise the law of the Conservation of Energy would be being violated. I can't put 3413 Btu of heat in and get 1 kWh out if there's ANY form of energy conversion going on. Can't be done. Not ever. Not by no one no how.

The issue isn't how much energy is put in (whatever units one chooses to employ); rather, it's about how much in the way of natural resources is required to produce that kWh. If I'm buring s**t, then no matter how efficient I am (i.e. however good my heat rate is) I'm still depleting resources. Forever. With PV or CSP or wind or whatever, the question shifts to how much stuff I use to build the device and how much it costs to get that kWh out. Because once I build it, it requires no fuel (ergo, no heat rate).
Does this make sense?

Frank Currie, PE
Project Engineer
Commonwealth Associates, Inc.
1599 S. St. Francis Dr.
Suite C
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505-982-4012
www.cai-engr.com











Thursday April 14, 2011 09:12


 

Payne thought he was going to get shot in the back by Albuquerque Police Department officer Romero who pointed a loaded pistol at his back.

This was done when we tried to prevent our $22,036 from being stolen.

Now stakes are higher. Much higher.





Wednesday April 13, 2011 10:18


http://www.prosefights.org/unmineable/unmineable.htm#scholle


Hello Mr Scholle,

Thank you for your 04/11/11 09:58 response the question of unmineable coal directed to Ms Gretchen Hoffman.

This helps.

And so does this.
Greg Schaefer, spokesman for Arch Coal Inc., which operates two mines in the Powder River Basin, said the coal in the basin is shaped like a bathtub, with the edges near the land surface and then dropping deep underground in the middle.

‘‘That coal can be several thousand feet deep in the middle,’’ Schaefer said. ‘‘There’s no technology for that kind of operation.’’

And this too
Take A Ride Into A Mine (CBS News)

I read in CARBON SEQUESTRATION IN THE CONTEXT OF CLIMATE CHANGE.
[a] shift to energy generation from sources that do not produce CO2 (wind, solar, geothermal, hydro, or nuclear). ...

New Mexico seeks to be a national leader in production of solar generation of electricity using both
Concentrated solar power and photovoltaic technologies.

PNM foil


asserts that Heat Rate does not apply to CSP or Photovoltaic generation of electricity. And wind too.

Commonwealth Associates, Inc. electrical engineer Frank M Currie wrote
To attempt to address your heat rate questions, the term "heat rate" from an energy production perspective refers to the amount of energy a plant produces for every unit of fuel that gets put in. Specifically, it's the number of BTU's needed to produce one kilowatt-hour of energy. So strictly speaking, I would say that heat rate has no real meaning for solar PV or wind, since nothing's being burned. The efficiency of these technologies matters, of course, in that one wants to get as much energy output per unit input as possible. It's most important implication is how quickly we burn non-renewable resources to generate electricty. So heat rate is really an expression of (thermal) generator efficiency that doesn't have an immediate analog in renewable techonologies since we don't consume non-renewable resources in the latter.

  wrote,
Heat rate is the amount of Btu's of fossil fuel burned to generate kWh's of electricity. Since CSPs don't typically burn any fossil fuel (unless they have supplemental firing), the term heat rate does not apply to CSPs. I have included a definition of heat rate that I got off the net for further clarification.

A measurement used in the energy industry to calculate how efficiently a generator uses heat energy. It is expressed as the number of BTUs of heat required to produce a kilowatt-hour of energy. Operators of generating facilities can make reasonably accurate estimates of the amount of heat energy a given quantity of any type of fuel, so when this is compared to the actual energy produced by the generator, the resulting figure tells how efficiently the generator converts that fuel into electrical energy.
Truth of Nelson's statement 'Heat rate is the amount of Btu's of fossil fuel burned to generate kWh's of electricity.' is questionable because the above PNM foil, data apparently show Geothermal as having a Heat Rate of 29,050 BTU/kWh. Nuclear 10,510 and Nuclear (PV Lease Acquisitions) 10,420.

Some of the data in that foil was apparently supplied by EPRI.

Large scale solar generation of electricity is a fraud I was told by a liberal arts educated vice president of a large wall street investment bank several years ago.

That investment bank was reported to have lost $24.1 million of the well over $1 billion lost by investors in the Eclipse Aviation bankruptcy.

Post
"It is time that the state take control of this increasingly important issue."

Supposition that the state of New Mexico is utitilzing individuals' advice who have expertise and ability in the area of electric power generation is suspect.

We recommended that the state 1 Contract with NM geologists to attemp to forecast future BTUs available for electricity generation 2 Establish a board of those qualified to evaluate whether proposed solar or wind electric generation technologies are a scam or not.

http://home.comcast.net/~bpayne37/pnmelectric...

There is a LOT OF MONEY to be made developing and selling alternate generation facilities to those who do not understand the laws of thermodynamics, HEAT RATE, and CAPACITY FACTOR.
suggests opportunity for fraud.

Response to above post

fast neutron
Santa Fe, NM
January 12, 2009

From actual experience, wind farms produce 1.2 watts per square meter. Solar Thermal and Photovoltaic methods capture 5 to 6 watts per square meter. There is no economy of size in either technology. Dividing the watts you need by those values gives the land area in square meters needed to produce the juice. The numbers are astronomical

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/santa-fe-new-mexican/T0QVJ5UD3R25C8HRL
appears to confirm suspicion of fraud.

Three 5 watt solar panels purchased from Harbor Freight to investigate fast neutron's statement about Photovoltaic panel output roughly confirmed it.

Greg Nelson expressed lack of knowledge.
From: "Greg Nelson" To: bpayne37@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:34:21 PM
Subject: RE: heat rate for csp? geothermal heat rate

Don’t know.

From: bpayne37@comcast.net [mailto:bpayne37@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 5:33 PM
To: Nelson, Greg
Cc: scholle1@gmail.com; gretchen@gis.nmt.edu; fmcurrie@cai-engr.com; CAI Info; Shirley A. Lancaster; shumard@epri.com; askepri@epri.com; clperry@epri.com; clibby@epri.com; zalan8587@q.com; ron chesser; homan@nmgco.com; steve casey; dru jones; sheila.shaffer@state.nm.us

Subject: Re: heat rate for csp? geothermal heat rate

Hello Greg,

Thanks for response.

You wrote, 'Heat rate is the amount of Btu's of fossil fuel burned to generate kWh's of electricity. Since CSPs don't typically burn any fossil fuel (unless they have supplemental firing), the term heat rate does not apply to CSPs.'

Then why does Geothermal have a Heat Rate of 29,050 BTU/kWh?

regards,

bill

http://www.prosefights.org/unmineable/unmineable.htm#scholle

Scientists and engineers at NM Bureau of Geology & Mineral Resources may be able to increase Mr Nelson's knowledge by issuing an official statement as to whether Heat Rate and associated Second law of thermodynamics applies to CSP, Photovoltaic, and Wind generation of electricity, or not.

Please respond as to whether NM Bureau of Geology & Mineral Resources is willing to make this determination and, and if it is, when can we expect a statement.

Please also acknowledge receipt of this email.

Regards,

bill

Distribution

sheila.shaffer@state.nm.us
gretchen@gis.nmt.edu
Jason.Marks@state.nm.us;
David.King@state.nm.us;
JeromeD.Block@state.nm.us;
Becenti@state.nm.us;
Sandy.Jones@state.nm.us;
Patrick.Lyons@state.nm.us
Ben.Hall@state.nm.us
ron.martinez@state.nm.us
John.Gaherty@state.nm.us
mona.varela@state.nm.us
patricia.torres@state.nm.us
jonbarela2010@yahoo.com
mikemalloy5006@comcast.net
william.payne@nmlegis.gov
psisneros@nmag.gov
info@susana2010.com
titomadrid@cabq.gov
pcordova@nmag.gov
dave@radfreenm.org
kelly.o'donnell@state.nm.us;
the.secretary@hq.doe.gov;
alexander.morris@hq.doe.gov
amorales58@comcast.net
pgessing@riograndefoundation.org
mary.homan@nmgco.com
asklee@aarp.org
jcumbie@cabq.gov



Wednesday April 13, 2011 09:03


A Loan and a Name Google adds to the luster of a solar project




Why the United States Is Destroying Its Education System.





Smart Meter Marketing






We know a little about small amounts of electricity. 

Diode protection and Flash Forth86 USB file transfers: Part A, Part B, Part C. Tuesday April 12, 2011.


Maxim/Dallas DS89C430/DS80C323 Forth51 project


Supervisor Circuit Decides When Solar Array Can Power A Load
Giovanni Romeo Istituto Nationale Di Geofisica E Vulcanologia, Rome, Italy romeo@ingv.it

And even a bit about solar generation of electricity.

PNM Algodones, NM Solar Array and Work Proposal

We googled 'pnm solar proposal' to find above link.

 


Monday April 11, 2011 10:45



We are using our first-hand knowledge of how the liberal arts educated [memorize, speculate, emote, then interpret] 'think' to get our stolen $22,036 back.




Strategy for getting the stolen $22,036.00 back and investment advice Monday April 6, 2011.

Stick to the facts. Make sure that they are very visible. Give them no 'wiggle room.'


Thursday April 7, 2011 13:30

PNM electric irp was hijacked by liberal arts 'educated'.

So Alternate Report was required.



CARBON SEQUESTRATION IN THE CONTEXT OF CLIMATE CHANGE.




Thursday April 7, 2011 06:48

http://www.prosefights.org/unmineable/unmineable.htm

gretchen@gis.nmt.edu

Hello Ms Hoffman,

In the below figure, what makes the coal unmineable?





Thanks, in advance.

bill


 












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